Battlesight engagement logic

[Adam106]

I'm noticing either a problem or misunderstanding with the 'Enter Battlesight Range' TC function. The same thing happens on all the MBTs I've tried.

I hit the key and the battlesight range 1200m is entered into the FCS, but the gunner always lases and generates a new range before firing. My understanding is that battlesight is a quick engagement with the gunner firing without lazing. I'm using the 'battlesight' key only and not issuing a separate 'fire' command. Something seems odd. What is the correct sequence? Anyone else?

:c:

[SuperSerp]

You might need to change the FCS to emergency mode or something similar but don't quote me on that

[Gibsonm]

I'm noticing either a problem or misunderstanding with the 'Enter Battlesight Range' TC function. The same thing happens on all the MBTs I've tried.

I hit the key and the battlesight range 1200m is entered into the FCS, but the gunner always lases and generates a new range before firing. My understanding is that battlesight is a quick engagement with the gunner firing without lazing. I'm using the 'battlesight' key only and not issuing a separate 'fire' command. Something seems odd. What is the correct sequence? Anyone else?

:c:

Well not entirely sure what you are doing but entering the battlesight range is part of the "service before firing" / turret drills you do in a safe location before you set out.

Then when you are in contact the fire control computer calculates the solution based on this pre-entered range (whatever you put in).

So the computer will assume the target is at 1,200m even if its at 10.

You should not need to Enter Battlesight Range every time you shoot.

Set it once and leave it alone.

[MDF]

I think this may answer the OP's question:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=247876&postcount=12

[wolfstriked]

I use it when I am in gunners position and close enemy is spotted,though in some tanks you do have to be in TC position.

[MDF]

I use it when I am in gunners position and close enemy is spotted,though in some tanks you do have to be in TC position.

Yeah, in the LeoA5, the gunner can set battlesight range. In the M1, the TC does it, so you have to switch from the gunner to the TC when you need it. I do this on occasion when I can't get a good lase due to smoke, foliage. etc. and it's faster than manually entering the range. It would be great if they could fix the functioning of this command when issued from the TC position.

[Adam106]

I think this may answer the OP's question:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=247876&postcount=12

Yeah, that confirms what I was saying. Which is unfortunate. Too much to ask for in an update?

[Lt DeFault]

Yeah, in the LeoA5, the gunner can set battlesight range. In the M1, the TC does it, so you have to switch from the gunner to the TC when you need it.

I think this is because the Leo actually has a "battlesight button" (E1000 or something) whereas in the M1, the gunner has to manually enter the range. Switching to the TC just tells the AI to enter it instead.

One question though: If I lase a spot that's too close and I get the flashing "0000"s, does the FCS default to battlesight range, or the last good return?

[MDF]

I think this is because the Leo actually has a "battlesight button" (E1000 or something) whereas in the M1, the gunner has to manually enter the range. Switching to the TC just tells the AI to enter it instead.

Are you sure about that for the M1? The tutorial text is somewhat confusing, and sort of makes it sound like that, but the whole point of battlesight engagement is to save time, and it's a lot quicker to lase than it is to manually enter a range into the ballistic computer. My understanding is that the TC (1) makes an assessment of the terrain beforehand to determine an appropriate battlesight range; (2) that range is entered into the BS feature of the ballistic computer by the TC (M1) or the gunner (Leo2) before any enemy is encountered; and (3) when a battlesight situation presents itself, the M1 TC presses the "battlesight" button on his control panel, control handle, or whatever, in order to automatically enter the predetermined BS range into the ballistic computer, while also giving the verbal "battlesight" command to the gunner and possibly also overriding to slew the turret. It would be the same in the Leo, except it is the gunner who presses a button to enter the battlesight raange into the ballistic computer after receiving the oral command from the TC.

I certainly could be wrong about this, but it makes no sense to me to be manually entering digits into the ballistic computer in a situation in which you're supposed to be using shortcuts to reduce engagement time.

[Lt DeFault]

I think you're right. I just looked and the M1A1 does indeed have a "Battle Sght" button in the commander's spot. Oops.

[Tjay]

In those circumstances, would it be quicker to use GAS, which as I understand it, is effective a boresight - which would do the job?

[MDF]

This would work in the M1 series, for example, which uses a so-called "non-disturbed" sight. The reticle seems to be centered at a range of ~1,000m, which is pretty close to the default BS range. The Leo2 series uses a "disturbed sight," where the gunner actually "dials in" a value to reticle. (See http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/Leopard_2A5-DK#Sight_Symbology_2) You could set your GAS to 1200m or whatever desired range before hand. But, if it's set at a significantly different range, it would take too long to reset (the caret moves slooooowwwwwllly).

In either case, though, it probably just takes too much time to physically transition from the GPS to GAS (in SB, at least, the animation still takes a second or so), plus you lose access to the thermal imager. I still think it would be faster to stay in the GPS and lase rather than switch to the GAS. I certainly do switch to the GAS in some time-urgent situations when I can't get a good lase for whatever reason. For example, you can see the target fairly distinctly in the daylight GPS channel, but it's moving laterally behind some trees, so it's difficult to time a good lase. In that situation, it might be better to just switch to GAS rather than manually entering range into the BC. Most times I get the battlesight command from the TC, however, he is slewing the turret and I have no prior warning as to what the target LOS situation is going to be.

[Ssnake]

What I do notice in many YouTube SB Pro videos is that people are oblivious to the range reading, or try to keep lasing when all they get is a 0000 due to dust and smoke obscurance. In such a case using the battlesight is your best option to have a reasonable value entered into the ballistic computer.

This, of course, requires to force oneself not to get target fixated, and to check the range reading every time. If it is 0000, don't lase again. Use the battlesight instead.

Also, many gunners don't switch as often between daysight and thermal sight as they probably should (unless it's really foggy weather). Battlefield obscurance would become so much more obvious.

[Froggy]

Ssnake, be nice, give us a Leclerc, Battlesight range is always displayed at control palmswitch press, or in case of no laser return (no 0000, but BSR)

[lavictoireestlavie]

Ssnake, be nice, give us a Leclerc, Battlesight range is always displayed at control palmswitch press, or in case of no laser return (no 0000, but BSR)

+1

Please !!!

[Froggy]

No, this one!

[lavictoireestlavie]

No, this one!

Does this just happen to be your Leclerc S. XXI ?

[Froggy]

Does this just happen to be your Leclerc S. XXI ?

yep...

[Froggy]

Made some test with leo2A4, and when hiting the BS key in TC position, I see the gunner entering BS mode (light on the TC panel, and BS range), but right after gunner lases the target before firing...

[Tjay]

This would work in the M1 series, for example, which uses a so-called "non-disturbed" sight. The reticle seems to be centered at a range of ~1,000m, which is pretty close to the default BS range. The Leo2 series uses a "disturbed sight," where the gunner actually "dials in" a value to reticle. (See http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/Leopard_2A5-DK#Sight_Symbology_2) You could set your GAS to 1200m or whatever desired range before hand. But, if it's set at a significantly different range, it would take too long to reset (the caret moves slooooowwwwwllly).

Many thanks for the info. In the CR2 I automatically hit 'p' (to dump any induced lead) and 'backspace' after every shot. On a couple of occasions this has saved me from nasties that have suddenly cropped up at close range by allowing me to fire immediately. (Yeah, I know it shouldn't happen but it does. To me anyway:()

[Maj.Hans]

Also, many gunners don't switch as often between daysight and thermal sight as they probably should (unless it's really foggy weather). Battlefield obscurance would become so much more obvious.

If I get a bad lase when I should get a good one, that's my first reaction - Flip to daysight.

If I don't see any obstruction (foggy) but still can't get a good one, I'll enter the last known range and engage with that.

Personally, the most use I can recall getting out of the battle-sight button was as a way to manual range with a noob in the gunner seat and a busted laser by adjusting the battle-sight range setting and then hitting the key again.

Oh, or if my gunner does something like tell me "Hey dude, hang on I need to go get a drink and have a smoke I'll be right back." and then get up and leave without getting out of the damned seat first, and I'm in an M1/M1A1, I'll set the battle-sight range to 0000 and use it together with the sticky palm switches to dump lead.

Not real "true to life" uses, but then again, I can't physically abuse my gunner over the internet so I need some kind of work around sometimes!

[DarkFib3r]

On 3/6/2014 at 5:20 PM, Ssnake said:

...people are oblivious to the range reading, or try to keep lasing when all they get is a 0000 due to dust and smoke obscurance. In such a case using the battlesight is your best option to have a reasonable value entered into the ballistic computer. This, of course, requires to force oneself not to get target fixated, and to check the range reading every time. If it is 0000, don't lase again. Use the battlesight instead...

 

Based on your explanation, when you use the LRF and get the flashing zeros, the ballistic computer may NOT have a reasonable value entered into the ballistic computer? So in the M1, flashing zeros may NOT represent 1200 meters (default battlesight range) and it is up to you, as commander or gunner, to get a reasonable number into the ballistic computer in this instance.

 

For a single crewed vehicle, if I am the gunner and I get flashing zeros and I notice it, I would quickly jump to the commander with F7, hit Backspace for battlesight, hit F6 to go back to the gunner, and F2 to resume firing. The flashing zeros will now be replaced with 1200 and I can rely on that number instead of the variable number that might be in the ballistic computer from the bad return on the last LRF.

 

Have I interpreted this correctly? Thanks!

[Ssnake]

As a gunner you should be able to hit backspace directly to activate the battlesight.

 

Also, I'd make it a habit to switch between thermal view and daysight on a regular basis. Nobody would want to abolish the use of thermals, but overreliance is a mistake.

[DarkFib3r]

4 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

As a gunner you should be able to hit backspace directly to activate the battlesight.

 

In the M1A1, this does not appear to be the case. I'll verify tonight, but I recall trying this from the gunner's position and Backspace not switching to battlesight range.

[DarkFib3r]

5 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

Also, I'd make it a habit to switch between thermal view and daysight on a regular basis. Nobody would want to abolish the use of thermals, but overreliance is a mistake.

 

I agree. Once I get a thermal contact, I normally switch to daylight scope immediately as more often then not I can make out the vehicle better that way. It also lets me know if the vehicle is behind a smokescreen. I also heavily rely on the daysight to verify when enemy vehicles are down; that's harder to do through thermals as the smoke does not show up as clearly.