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Campaign: Red Tide '85 (discussion thread)


Volcano

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Recon Battle1:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission1/Red%20Tide%2085-1_RE_071212GIBSON-SERVE1212.zip

Main Battle1:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission1/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MA_071412GIBSON-SERVE1233.zip

Recon Battle2:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission2/Red%20Tide%2085-1_RE_071912GIBSON-SERVE1222.zip

Main Battle2:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission2/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MAIN_Day2.zip

Main Battle3:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission3/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MA_072812GIBSON-SERVE1241.zip

Recon Battle4:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission4/Red%20Tide%2085-1_RE_080212GIBSON-SERVE1220.zip

Main Battle4:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission4/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MA_080412GIBSON-SERVE1307.zip

Recon Battle5:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission5/Red%20Tide%2085-1_RE_080912GIBSON-SERVE1212.zip

Main Battle5:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission5/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MA_081112GIBSON-SERVE1225.zip

Recon Battle6:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission6/Red%20Tide%2085-1_RE_081612GIBSON-SERVE1219.zip

Main Battle6:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission6/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MA_081712KRAUSE-LAPTO2238.zip

Recon Battle7:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission7/Red%20Tide%2085-1_RE_082212KRAUSE-LAPTO2226.zip

Main Battle7:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19518131/Red%20Tide%20%2785/Mission7/Red%20Tide%2085-1_MA_082512GIBSON-SERVE1245.zip

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No matter what happens next week, it has been a great campaign. Both sides will no doubt be able to look back and see where they won, or lost this campaign in the results from all the previous missions.

You have to hand it to Volcano, with all these variables, for this campaign to work out the way it has is pretty cool. Up and down, and here we are, the final missions and none of us know what the outcome will be.

From the brink of defeat, and on the verge of victory. That could be said for both sides.

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No matter what happens next week, it has been a great campaign. Both sides will no doubt be able to look back and see where they won, or lost this campaign in the results from all the previous missions.

You have to hand it to Volcano, with all these variables, for this campaign to work out the way it has is pretty cool. Up and down, and here we are, the final missions and none of us know what the outcome will be.

From the brink of defeat, and on the verge of victory. That could be said for both sides.

Amen !

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No matter what happens next week, it has been a great campaign. Both sides will no doubt be able to look back and see where they won, or lost this campaign in the results from all the previous missions.

You have to hand it to Volcano, with all these variables, for this campaign to work out the way it has is pretty cool. Up and down, and here we are, the final missions and none of us know what the outcome will be.

From the brink of defeat, and on the verge of victory. That could be said for both sides.

Seconded. This is my first big campaign so I have nothing to gauge it against but it would seem to be exemplary - and perhaps serve as a template for future campaigns?

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Another recce question.

I have really enjoyed the 'MKII' type of recce scenario but am not sure about the right tactics for forward recce units. During the last recce op I managed to penetrate through to the rearmost objective and report on obstacles there. But I can't really see what tactical value that has for C.O BlueFor come the main battle.

Apparently Blue failed in its recce objectives because it didn't get eyes on any RedFor armour concentrations. Had I been asked to do that I would have acted differently.

Advice please.

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Another recce question.

I have really enjoyed the 'MKII' type of recce scenario but am not sure about the right tactics for forward recce units. During the last recce op I managed to penetrate through to the rearmost objective and report on obstacles there. But I can't really see what tactical value that has for C.O BlueFor come the main battle.

Apparently Blue failed in its recce objectives because it didn't get eyes on any RedFor armour concentrations. Had I been asked to do that I would have acted differently.

Advice please.

First off, what was your orders? when conducting recce you can get a diffferent sets of orders, ranging from recce the terrain, recce obstacles, recce enemy units and placements, enemy rear echelon units, recce suitable roads for advancing forces etc.

So much of your success/failure comes from what order you recieved initally. if your order was to recce obstables then you did your jobb. If someone told you to search for armoured units and you was sitting looking at obstacles you failed...

Dont forget that in our recce battles there are many recce units, so different units might get different orders so the whole force in itself is fulfilling the mission, but yours recce mission might just be the small obstacles.

and never forget this:

"Recce should see, but not be seen. -hear but not be heard"

(unless you are doing recce by fire that is ;) )

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Another recce question.

I have really enjoyed the 'MKII' type of recce scenario but am not sure about the right tactics for forward recce units. During the last recce op I managed to penetrate through to the rearmost objective and report on obstacles there. But I can't really see what tactical value that has for C.O BlueFor come the main battle.

Apparently Blue failed in its recce objectives because it didn't get eyes on any RedFor armour concentrations. Had I been asked to do that I would have acted differently.

Advice please.

Well as I said in TS yesterday its not just a case of Blue "winning" its recon objectives, Red has to "loose" some too to maximise the information found / revealed.

This may clarify things:

So some of the extra information we received in Battle 2 was not because Blue won but reflected penalties for Red "loosing".

Something like:

If Red looses, force structure revealed to Blue.

If Red looses, deployment zones revealed to Blue.

If Red looses, FLET revealed to Blue.

etc.

Correct. If either side wins then they get the "bonus/free" recon units and priority fire markers. The rest of the of the effects take place because the other side lost. These are what I call "penalties" for losing.

To elaborate a bit more:

The penalties are, off the top of my head -- I may be forgetting a few --

  • FLET shown
  • rough intel of ENY positions shown
  • ENY unit unit named in the briefing
  • ENY forces deployed in such a way that they are not ready for battle (for OPFOR they are deployed to the rear in march/column (like last week) and must spend some time moving to the front line and cannot mass where they want to at start, and for BLUEFOR it means they begin with 40% ammo and must conduct a resupply where possible).

So yes, BLUEFOR got the bonuses for winning but OPFOR received neither a bonus for winning nor penalties for losing (the umpire call is that nothing happened due to all collective screw ups, combined with the mistaken ceasefire request from BLUEFOR). Note that had BLUEFOR not mistaken called for a ceasefire and OPFOR instead quit the game then I would have considered their result a loss.

I hope that makes sense.

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Thanks all for the compliment. Hopefully the campaign won't fall flat on its face in the last week.:eek2:

Another recce question.

I have really enjoyed the 'MKII' type of recce scenario but am not sure about the right tactics for forward recce units. During the last recce op I managed to penetrate through to the rearmost objective and report on obstacles there. But I can't really see what tactical value that has for C.O BlueFor come the main battle.

Apparently Blue failed in its recce objectives because it didn't get eyes on any RedFor armour concentrations. Had I been asked to do that I would have acted differently.

Advice please.

Who said you failed? I haven't typed the weekly wrap up yet, but you were successful in reconnoitering the large objective, and also the smaller objective in the rear.

I suppose what probably gave you the impression that you failed, is the text in the main scenario "we have failed to ascertain the enemy's strength". This does NOT necessarily mean the recon mission failed, it just means that the enemy was uncooperative and also won theirs too, so essentially both sides effectively screened their main force. If you want to know if your side "won" the recon battle, just look at the map on Friday: if you have priority fire markers and extra recon units and do not have to conduct resupply ops, then you won. The only uncooperative variable is whether the enemy won too, and if they didn't then it is essentially a major coup and you would have all the perks. The specifiec perks and penalties for all cases are outlined in the rules.

As for the statement that you don't see how your recon objectives play a role on Friday, we have to step out of our literal minds. The recon battle is just a set of objectives that the recon unit must accomplish in order to WIN. This win/loss result is what is carried, so yes, you bet they are important for Friday as they determine if you won or not. Besides that, locating obstacles director carries over, even if not in the same exact map area: I use a system to abstract it (ie. X% of obstacles were located in the first 4km of front, etc), but usually the maps overlap somewhere and the obstacles are identical so locating is vital. Having said that, maybe one day someone can take these campaign rules and work out a way that Recon Battles are directly 1:1 continuation to Friday, while somehow maintaining their sanity.

But really, I just think we have a tendecy to overthink the Recon Battle. Recon battles are important but necessarily abstract, and they exist as a mechanism to both practice for Friday (ie. hone teamwork skills), allows scenarios with "exciting objectives" other than the straight forward brawl on Friday (although I admitted we got side tracked from this mid way through), and most importantly, the Recon Battle provides a mechanism to have one side at an advantage/disadvantage on Friday. Everyone might not think it or realize it, but the Recon Battles were vital to the overall balance of the campaign, but it is good when the subtleties are not apparent. :)

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Ahh I missed Gibson's post when I typed the huge post above. His post says the same thing much more efficiently. ;)

I hope the info helps. For version 2.0 I will probably think of a less confusing way to write that part of the Friday briefing, but the trouble is that I really on want to provide clues in order to leave some uncertainty until everything is spelled out in the weekly wrap up.

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First off, what was your orders? when conducting recce you can get a diffferent sets of orders, ranging from recce the terrain, recce obstacles, recce enemy units and placements, enemy rear echelon units, recce suitable roads for advancing forces etc.

Thanks for the reply. My orders were to recce that rear objective - which I did. And was feeling pretty happy about getting off my report on the radio before I died. But on reflection I just couldn't see the value of the exercise tactically, but Volcano's answer has resolved that.

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As for the statement that you don't see how your recon objectives play a role on Friday, we have to step out of our literal minds. Snipped....

But really, I just think we have a tendecy to overthink the Recon Battle. Recon battles are important but necessarily abstract, and they exist as a mechanism to both practice for Friday (ie. hone teamwork skills), allows scenarios with "exciting objectives" other than the straight forward brawl on Friday.... :)

Ah, that makes it clear. It is the result of the recce battle that is important, even if the aims are not what they might be in RL. Got it.

Many thanks.

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Ah, that makes it clear. It is the result of the recce battle that is important, even if the aims are not what they might be in RL. Got it.

Many thanks.

Speaking as someone who was a scout for nine years....

You can get orders for a recce mission and it may not always make much sense to you. However the info you gather may be terribly important to someone else. It could be used to prove or disprove a theory or confirm or deny a target. The knowledge of goes on deep in the enemy's rear can be of great importance to the commander. It can lead to target planning, counter attack planning, or the canceling of such, thus preserving critical assets.

Los

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Speaking as someone who was a scout for nine years....

You can get orders for a recce mission and it may not always make much sense to you. However the info you gather may be terribly important to someone else. It could be used to prove or disprove a theory or confirm or deny a target. The knowledge of goes on deep in the enemy's rear can be of great importance to the commander. It can lead to target planning, counter attack planning, or the canceling of such, thus preserving critical assets.

Los

Yes. Point taken. But it's nice to know that the recce objectives in this campaign were set as a challenge to determine what advantages or disadvantages each side would have in the following main battle.

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Speaking as someone who was a scout for nine years....

You can get orders for a recce mission and it may not always make much sense to you. However the info you gather may be terribly important to someone else. It could be used to prove or disprove a theory or confirm or deny a target. The knowledge of goes on deep in the enemy's rear can be of great importance to the commander. It can lead to target planning, counter attack planning, or the canceling of such, thus preserving critical assets.

Los

Agree. My background was armoured recce, and you could get any number of different tasks: area, point and route recces, flank guard, convoy escorts...the list goes on. You'd tie in with infantry recce platoons, or divisional recce, or flanking formation recce units...and that list goes on. Best we could do was to do the assigned job and hope that the grownups got all the tasks assigned properly! :sonic:

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