T-72 - what's the verdict?

[OddBall]

So, there is an problem between the turret position seen by commander and the position the gunner saw it.

Could you be more specific? Gun points in different direction for the gunner than it does for the TC?

[Quagmire]

Just took her for a spin at the tank range again. Scored a 78% average this time. I was even hitting the far off targets within 1 or 2 shots. This might be my lucky tank!

[TankHunter]

I'm liking it so far. Love the interior of the thing. They can also be pretty nasty given the right conditions. But for night fighting they really need that IR searchlight.

[Fuchs_Leo1_TC]

Could you be more specific? Gun points in different direction for the gunner than it does for the TC?

Yep

As commander i saw the gun at 12 o'clock so gunner was in fact at 2 o'clock

it's disturbing for helping gunner to aim at a target.

[sabot_ready]

:thumbup::thumbup: for the T72.

It has brought a much needed feature to the game.

I only wish all the campaigns that had been played had it then. It would have made a big difference.

[LtGeorge]

I created a scenario focused on playing the T-72 - it should hopefully show up in the downloads section soon.

As I was debugging it, what was all capable of killing me in my T-72M1 from the front quarter?

- RPG-7L,

- AT-4b from a BMP-2,

- T-72B,

- T-55 (embarrassing),

- BMP-1 main gun round (you can pull my tank cred now).

Basically, you need to command the T-72M1 as if you don't have armor, but cardboard. Reverse speed is really slow, which stinks if you get into a situation that you need to back out of really quickly. The gunner's optic is fine if you are under 2km, and you are helped by the flat trajectory of most rounds at that range. All around, it is a much different deal than the M1 or Leo, but I'm finding that the M1 and Leo made me a lazy tanker.

[Companion]

I created a scenario focused on playing the T-72 - it should hopefully show up in the downloads section soon.

As I was debugging it, what was all capable of killing me in my T-72M1 from the front quarter?

- RPG-7L,

- AT-4b from a BMP-2,

- T-72B,

- T-55 (embarrassing),

- BMP-1 main gun round (you can pull my tank cred now).

Basically, you need to command the T-72M1 as if you don't have armor, but cardboard. Reverse speed is really slow, which stinks if you get into a situation that you need to back out of really quickly. The gunner's optic is fine if you are under 2km, and you are helped by the flat trajectory of most rounds at that range. All around, it is a much different deal than the M1 or Leo, but I'm finding that the M1 and Leo made me a lazy tanker.

...All the while I was bitching why my CHARMs and M833s are playing door knocker on those T-72s.

Russian tank armor scheme is like pulling a lottery - one time it shrugs off a silver bullet and the next time a PG-9 sends the turret flying...

Yeah, as someone said, a Man's tank it is. :sonic:

[RecceDG]

The amazing thing I found from testing is that as crude as the FCS is, I very quickly adapted to it.

At one point, I was trading shots with a (computer controlled) Leo 2A4 at 3700m (I was shooting at muzzle flashes) and took it out. It took three hits, but it went down.

Yeah, three hits at nearly 4 km away. Insane.

It makes me wonder how much gunnery practice your average Soviet tanker had.

DG

[TankHunter]

George

The good thing about the T-72 is the smoke generator. If you get into trouble turn that on and turn about. You will get out of there (relatively) quickly and the smoke might obscure your movements.

The T-72 is definitely a different beast from what we have been accustomed to.

[enigma6584]

Does anyone else find themselves waiting for the loader to ram in another round? I keep waiting for the "Sabot Up!" and then I remember that I need to push the reload button.:biggrin:

Old habits are hard to break.

[SeanPatrick]

Does anyone else find themselves waiting for the loader to ram in another round? I keep waiting for the "Sabot Up!" and then I remember that I need to push the reload button.:biggrin:

Old habits are hard to break.

Yes.

[enigma6584]

The IR equipment on the T-72 is amazingly useless. I set up a test mission in the editor at night and the M113s which were to be my target rolled right on past me without me ever seeing them. I finally saw them after I unbuttoned and took a listen for sounds. No wonder T-72 normally did not fight at night. Beautiful Esim! Going to be some interesting night mission scenarios out there.

[enigma6584]

You have to be very good to be successful with it, be willing to take losses, and get in as close as possible to your prey. Other than that, always operate in full platoons, don't detach single vehicles, try to ambush enemy on reverse slopes, and don't forget to press "V". Personally I like the T-72, but I love a good challenge too...

It is certainly not for everyone.

Yeah, I'm loving this tank myself. Mission designers should make sure when making realistic scenarios that the OPFOR team has plenty of numbers to make up for third world equipment.

[enigma6584]

As for Soviet tactics for use in the T-72, you can sum it up with: stay in the low ground, move in close for the kill, go to ground when resistance is met and bypass with follow on forces in order to flank the enemy, mass fires against all threats, and so forth (take it from there)...

Worth remembering. Would be a great sig...:biggrin:

[enigma6584]

I haven't gotten around to crewing the T72 that much. I've just been doing a lot of oggling in this update. First off, the tank looks great. Every little thing on that turret seems three dimensional (I love the grenades and the spinning cupola). The dshk(?) sounds awesome! And what a wonderful feeling I got when I got inside of it! It really feels like I'm inside one.

Verdict: It is awesome!

I was particularly blown away by the sound of that big gun on the BTR-80 and BDRM-2.

[Vati]

The IR equipment on the T-72 is amazingly useless. I set up a test mission in the editor at night and the M113s which were to be my target rolled right on past me without me ever seeing them. I finally saw them after I unbuttoned and took a listen for sounds. No wonder T-72 normally did not fight at night. Beautiful Esim! Going to be some interesting night mission scenarios out there.

There is no simulation of active IR ... sure this 1st. gen is nothing compared to 1st. gen TIS but it would help as now I can spot silhouette in GPS before I do so in IR

We must also not forget that SBP does not simulate any weather effects or thermal masking techniques so TIS is always perfect

[enigma6584]

There is no simulation of active IR ... sure this 1st. gen is nothing compared to 1st. gen TIS but it would help as now I can spot silhouette in GPS before I do so in IR

We must also not forget that SBP does not simulate any weather effects or thermal masking techniques so TIS is always perfect

I'll have to test more, practice more. I'm not complaining mind you, I just thought it was neat. I could hear them coming but could not find them. They could not find me either since I made sure to click the NVGs for them off.

Also, point taken regarding weather effects not being modelled. That is actually something I've been thinking about since last night. Figuring out last night in the editor how to set up visual conditions where there was moonlight but not too much...just enought too see a little. Need to read up on mission editor creativity.

[Induction]

So now that the T-72 has peaked the interest of so many harcore tankers, might I suggest that we'll have a few more of those who are interested in Zip's possibly upcoming T-72 campaign, than we had before?

If so, now just imagine taking that relic to war against a better equipped, more numerous enemy in a terrain that is probably way more flat than most people here are used to...

and it looks like some already beat me to it. Nice.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=15608

[Marko]

I have been playing the T-72 for a few days now.I cant find one thing that i like. the fire control is difficult and clumsy the night vision is a Joke.its just fantastic i felt like a real T-72 crew member especially when night fighting i Was really nervous sitting in the gunners position scanning trying to spot targets waiting to be Picked off.now that's what you call total Emerson.I don't think even the great Tank generals of the past would like the put a T-72 against a modern western tank in a night fight.

You may have a chance in good light.no wonder western army's place so much training for night fighting.any advice on how to improve the odds in a night fight would be greatly appreciated

I always new the T Tanks had a major disadvantage in night fighting and fire control.but until you actually experience it.like i said total Emerson.great job Esim

[Vati]

I have been playing the T-72 for a few days now.I cant find one thing that i like. the fire control is difficult and clumsy the night vision is a Joke.its just fantastic i felt like a real T-72 crew member especially when night fighting i Was really nervous sitting in the gunners position scanning trying to spot targets waiting to be Picked off.now that's what you call total Emerson.I don't think even the great Tank generals of the past would like the put a T-72 against a modern western tank in a night fight.

You may have a chance in good light.no wonder western army's place so much training for night fighting.any advice on how to improve the odds in a night fight would be greatly appreciated

You cannot really compare the T72 with the latest tanks ... however when you take it to its proper era, it was a beast (not to mention T64 which west did not know about at all).

The biggest error folks make is to put these tanks into an environment which would not be met in real life night operations... the battlefield would be flooded with illumination and other massed arty strikes combined with tank assaults on mass. TIS or no TIS you would been on a fighting retreat in a western tank

[SeanPatrick]

Are those wooden control handles?

[Eisenschwein]

No, it´s Plastic or as it was called in the GDR "Plaste". ;-)

[SeanPatrick]

Ahh...okay. I was picturing some 90 yr. old Russian guy sitting on his porch whittling tank parts for mother Russia.

Hey, at least that way if something broke it'd be relatively easy to fix. I remember hearing about a car that was developed for 3rd world countries. It had a plywood body so that if you punctured it on a rock or whatnot you could just nail a piece of scrap over the hole.

[SSG.GETCH]

I had an Iraqi tanker completely disassemble a T-72 sight like the one pictured so I could have the control handles. His knowledge was fantastic and he had it apart and put back together in the span of a couple hours.

Can you imagine a US tanker disassembling his own sight and then putting it back together?

We did alot when I was a M60A1 crewman but once we transitioned to the

M1 (slicks) we were not allowed to do much else than track maintenance. Now with the M1A1/A2 im happy just to try and keep my skill set up with the CITV and FBCB2. Yeah I love it but I remember the sorta "John Wayne" feeling I had in the M60A1 degraged mode gunnery 24/7!

Getch

[Quagmire]

I remember hearing about a car that was developed for 3rd world countries. It had a plywood body so that if you punctured it on a rock or whatnot you could just nail a piece of scrap over the hole.

This one by any chance? Ended badly though:

http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/issue6/Africar/index.shtml