Map Request Thread

[DarkAngel]

buildings it is best to keep the building area data. I have a way of importing that to an sb map.

[MatsW]

2 hours ago, DarkAngel said:

buildings it is best to keep the building area data. I have a way of importing that to an sb map.

Please tell us. 🙂

[RedWardancer]

Recently played a scenario from COMMAND: Modern Operations.  The setting is 1994, Russia decides to launch WWIII against NATO.  One of the initial assaults is in northern Norway.  The Russians intend on capturing all of the airfields in the region, the largest of which is Banak Air Base.  Playing as the defending Norwegians, I defeated them in convincing form.  Now, I want to play this out in detail for an SB scenario.  Need a map.  I'd say 10km by 10km will do.  This is the closest rendition of the area I can find:

 

Norgeskart.pdf

[DarkAngel]

probably not easy. The available height data only goes to +/- 60 Degrees latitude. Plus the minimum sized SB map is 12km. Even then you want to keep the action away from the map edge so you probably want another couple of kms buffer all the way around.

 

[RedWardancer]

Figures.  20km x 20km then.  But if the height data won't do, I'll find another equivalent locale.

 

[DarkAngel]

47 minutes ago, RedWardancer said:

Figures.  20km x 20km then.  But if the height data won't do, I'll find another equivalent locale.

 

need to find some lat/long coordinates for me before i can tell you. If the lat >60 forget it... unless you want to buy data. The WorldDEM would only be $10k+

 

[RedWardancer]

If maps can be rotated in the editors, then I may have a solution to this.  If not...

 

Here's what I have found that comes close to a Norwegian fjord region if map rotation works:

#1: Stephenville Airport, Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada.  48-degrees, 33' N, 58-degrees, 34' W.

#2: Goose Bay AFB, Happy Valley, Newfoundland $ Labrador, Canada.  53-degrees, 19' 19", 60-degrees, 25' 33" W

[DarkAngel]

You may be in luck. Jaxa covers this area. Not sure if there may be some skew or inaccuracies to it though. The smaller Yellow square is 20x20km. The larger is 30x30km I think this may be better as there is some background scenery and plenty of buffer zone for missions.

[RedWardancer]

This will do.  30x30 is the safe bet.  

[Nike-Ajax]

Ahem - I am frightfully sorry to be so unstructured and be an inconvenience.

But I am looking at creating what could be a mini-campaign.
As part of that then maps of the Iranian/Turkish as well as Iraqi/Saudi border.

Now ... This is as much asking all you clever and knowledgeable players for existing maps as it is asking for a new map.

 

Any good bets or ideas?

 

[stormrider_sp]

1 hour ago, Nike-Ajax said:

Ahem - I am frightfully sorry to be so unstructured and be an inconvenience.

But I am looking at creating what could be a mini-campaign.
As part of that then maps of the Iranian/Turkish as well as Iraqi/Saudi border.

Now ... This is as much asking all you clever and knowledgeable players for existing maps as it is asking for a new map.

 

Any good bets or ideas?

 

 

What part of the Iraqi/Saudi border would you like? There is a glitch with all free satellite heightmap sources for this open desert area in that they are really very bumpy. I read it an anomaly caused by how radar scatter on the desert floor because of the variation of humidity. But for my Kuwait/Iraq border maps, which Gibson was very kind to import into SB, I figure out how to process the data in order get rid of all the bumpiness (Denoise). Its a time consuming job proportional to the size of the area. Also, for this particular area, I have plenty of data which I created using landsat maps by combining different channels, like NIR and colors, to be able to better contrast and identify features like desert roads and tracks and it possibly covers that area you have in mind, so I might be able to give you processed data ready for importing. I'm stuck at home anyways until at least april 15th.

Edited March 28, 2020 by stormrider_sp

[Bond_Villian]

Hi all, im looking for a map of the area around Bastogne, Belgium.

Something like this would be great;

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@50.0210804,5.7039891,21086m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

 

I found two very old hgt files and a ter file that i have converted to 4.1 standard, but they arent great. The elevation data seems wrong to me, it seems a lot more hilly than the actual area, and the details (roads buildings and terrain) on the .ter map i converted are very few and poor.

 

If anyone is able and willing to produce a map of this area i would be most grateful!

Cheers

Edited March 29, 2020 by Bond_Villian

[stormrider_sp]

31 minutes ago, Bond_Villian said:

Hi all, im looking for a map of the area around Bastogne, Belgium.

Something like this would be great;

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@50.0210804,5.7039891,21086m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

 

I found two very old hgt files and a ter file that i have converted to 4.1 standard, but they arent great. The elevation data seems wrong to me, it seems a lot more hilly than the actual area, and the details (roads buildings and terrain) on the .ter map i converted are very few and poor.

 

If anyone is able and willing to produce a map of this area i would be most grateful!

Cheers

Perhaps its bumpy because it didnt have the trees' canopies removed from the DEM?

 

[DarkAngel]

it was probably V1 SRTM data that it was built from

 

[Bond_Villian]

1 hour ago, stormrider_sp said:

Perhaps its bumpy because it didnt have the trees' canopies removed from the DEM?

Its not "bumpy", its the height data i think. The hills are very steep and large, and no not resemble the photos and maps im seeing elsewhere on internet.

 

1 hour ago, DarkAngel said:

it was probably V1 SRTM data that it was built from

Yeah the hgt files are very old. Are you able/willing to create a decent hgt map from available data, or perhaps to 'flatten' out this old map a bit for me? (By about 75 percent).

[Bond_Villian]

This is what im looking at now. Very steep hills that dont resemble the real world lacation, and very little road info

 

[DarkAngel]

28 minutes ago, Bond_Villian said:

Its not "bumpy", its the height data i think. The hills are very steep and large, and no not resemble the photos and maps im seeing elsewhere on internet.

 

Yeah the hgt files are very old. Are you able/willing to create a decent hgt map from available data, or perhaps to 'flatten' out this old map a bit for me? (By about 75 percent).

as long as you aren't in a rush.

[Ssnake]

Well, we have a map, and it sorta-kinda does the trick. We haven't release it because the source data aren't very good to begin with and the road leveling tools that we used on it haven't yet reached the maturity to allow an "auto-fixing" of the limitations of the original data. Add to that complications from having an artifical lake with a high and steep dam, and the necessity to have a high water level on one side of the wall and a very low one on the other side.

 

eSim staff did a tour of the whole area three years ago and it was interesting to see all the curveballs that reality throws at us when trying to create a decent digital representation. So it was a good reality check for the programmers, but it also showed how much work is still ahread of us, and it may well be that our work on fixing bad source data may be overtaken by high-res data becoming more common.

 

I'm mentioning this to warn against duplicate efforts. The terrain is a significant challenge because in the east of the area you do have very steep, canyon-like valleys with close proximity of roads, houses, rivers, and railway lines where smoothing one always incurs the risk of damaging adjacent elements.

[Bond_Villian]

@Ssnake

If you're willing to share this map with me, i may be able to use some of it. Im planning to make a campaign that involves smaller areas of terrain over a number of scenarios, so it may be suitable. If not, ill either use the one i have now or just use a 'proxy' map (Fulda or similar).

Cheers

[Ssnake]

Like I wrote, it's not yet meeting our criteria for quality, so I'm extremely hesitant about this. I would rather see that we address the open issues first and then give it another go before we make it public. The 911 community has remounted their efforts on the Fulda map, so I think that this is a much better choice even if it's not exactly the same terrain. But some river valleys there have similar restrictions, just not quite so extreme.

[Nike-Ajax]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:39 PM, stormrider_sp said:

 

What part of the Iraqi/Saudi border would you like? There is a glitch with all free satellite heightmap sources for this open desert area in that they are really very bumpy. I read it an anomaly caused by how radar scatter on the desert floor because of the variation of humidity. But for my Kuwait/Iraq border maps, which Gibson was very kind to import into SB, I figure out how to process the data in order get rid of all the bumpiness (Denoise). Its a time consuming job proportional to the size of the area. Also, for this particular area, I have plenty of data which I created using landsat maps by combining different channels, like NIR and colors, to be able to better contrast and identify features like desert roads and tracks and it possibly covers that area you have in mind, so I might be able to give you processed data ready for importing. I'm stuck at home anyways until at least april 15th.

First and foremost thank you for responding.

I have not finished up my strategic plot and direction yet.

 

But building on the fact that Shia vastly outnumber Sunni in Iraq, my first point of the mincampaign would be than Iran takes over Iraq and incorporates Irans lapdog towards the west so Syria into a consolidated Greater Arabian Republic. So building on that what-if ...

 

Seems like I will generally be going with three different thrusts, : Two going against Irans decades old enemy so Saudi Arabia, of which one will be through the desert and one will be taking the route Saddam did, so gobble up Kuwait on the way to Saudiarabia - so that area.
And the third one against Turkey so not sure yet as I havent done a strategic map recce, but possibly from Syria towards Turkey. And where the terrain favors movement.

[stormrider_sp]

2 hours ago, Nike-Ajax said:

First and foremost thank you for responding.

I have not finished up my strategic plot and direction yet.

 

But building on the fact that Shia vastly outnumber Sunni in Iraq, my first point of the mincampaign would be than Iran takes over Iraq and incorporates Irans lapdog towards the west so Syria into a consolidated Greater Arabian Republic. So building on that what-if ...

 

Seems like I will generally be going with three different thrusts, : Two going against Irans decades old enemy so Saudi Arabia, of which one will be through the desert and one will be taking the route Saddam did, so gobble up Kuwait on the way to Saudiarabia - so that area.
And the third one against Turkey so not sure yet as I havent done a strategic map recce, but possibly from Syria towards Turkey. And where the terrain favors movement.

Specifically, to my knowledge, the way from Iraq into Kuwait is this peculiar region which makes up the tri-border Iraq-Kuwait-Saudi called Wadi al Batin. For thousands of years, this dry river bed, or wadi, was the only "reference" in a featureless desert guiding travelers and armies alike to and from. Even in the early 90s, Saddam positioned his forces with this avenue of approach as his forces main focus point. To the west of the wadi-al-batin, is a very rough and features desert, that would present imense difficulties to anyone without a GPS. and/or a well trained professional army. So much so that in 1991, this right flank was left completely open. The maps (2) that Gibson converted are very close to this area, tho not quite; they are centered at interesting gulf war battles (medina ridge to the north and 73 easting more at the center), so this border is actually missing. I'd recommend that you check the map below to see if that's what you're after, in particular the wadi al batin at the medium-dash-dot-dot line representing the iraqi-kuwait border. If that interests you I might be able to help you with data for a map that covers an area more to the south.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by stormrider_sp

[Nike-Ajax]

Thank you very much - close enough, and obviously for a number of reasons we are not going to play the desert thrust, so this seems spot on.

 

 

So that just leaves the Syrian/Turkish border I guess

 

Just to verify: this is only a .hgt file?

Edited March 29, 2020 by Nike-Ajax

[Gibsonm]

15 minutes ago, Nike-Ajax said:

Just to verify: this is only a .hgt file?

 

Well it specifically says "Terrain file" above ...

 

[Bond_Villian]

5 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Like I wrote, it's not yet meeting our criteria for quality, so I'm extremely hesitant about this. I would rather see that we address the open issues first and then give it another go before we make it public. The 911 community has remounted their efforts on the Fulda map, so I think that this is a much better choice even if it's not exactly the same terrain. But some river valleys there have similar restrictions, just not quite so extreme.

Ok no problem, cheers