Recent war photo of T-72B3 with improper ERA

[tankgirl72]

Saw this recently. Picture in Ukraine of a knocked out T-72, the ERA bags on the sides did not even have the RA installed. Only the spacers to hold the RA were in the bags. If true some contractor should hang for this. Crappy way of trying to save money? I looked at schematics and the RA appears to be indeed missing inside the bags. Pilfered? Maybe but I doubt it. I suspect some Ukraine troops just ripped open the bags thinking they were the crews storage of belongings and left the internals strewed about. A common Russian MRE box is also visible. Picture below that is just for reference to show where the ERA bags are on the tank.

 

Edited October 23 by tankgirl72

[mpow66m]

Thats pretty common over there w RU MBTs along w crappy body armor made for airsoft supplied to RU troops.🫤

Edited October 23 by mpow66m

[tankgirl72]

12 hours ago, mpow66m said:

Thats pretty common over there w RU MBTs along w crappy body armor made for airsoft supplied to RU troops.🫤

Lotta corrupt contractors for sure.

[mpow66m]

Yes and Russia doesnt give a dam about troop losses.Their way conducting warfare is antiquated and will never work on the modern battlefield.... as we see.(hope thats not political)

[Captain_Colossus]

3 hours ago, mpow66m said:

Yes and Russia doesnt give a dam about troop losses.Their way conducting warfare is antiquated and will never work on the modern battlefield.... as we see.(hope thats not political)

 

 

this is narrative not based in reality, i.e., the russians are using meat wave attacks oblivious to losses. despite reviewing hours of video i have not seen a single one of these types of tactics.

rather the  russians are using siege warfare in light of the evolving threats in ukraine, encircling strongpoints rather than direct assaults where possible- like what it appears they are doing in pokrovsk

 

this slow and deliberate process is routinely mischaracterized as 'stalemate' or 'beaten off', since it is supposed to move like the liberation of kuwait in 1991, since it is not, the russians are somehow at a loss

 

if it is your argument that the russians do not care about troop losses, the same could be said of the ukrainians or the isrealis. war after all does mean casualties, but the russians are not so nearly as sloppy as what i see coming out of the echo chambers and peanut galleries

Edited October 23 by Captain_Colossus

[mpow66m]

Fair enough, but im going by the countless hrs and interviews of RU soldiers who say different.Incld the UA.Barrier troops just dont cut it in this day and age.RU has used the same tactics and strategies since WWIi.Nothings changed.It shows in the AFVs design.The way their Army is trained and supplied,their virtually non existsnt medical corp.....Hey I like the Russians,I think we should be on good terms,but govts need boogeymen. 

This will go down as one of the greatest Military blunders ever.RU got everything wrong.

YMMV

[Captain_Colossus]

2 hours ago, mpow66m said:

Fair enough, but im going by the countless hrs and interviews of RU soldiers who say different.Incld the UA.Barrier troops just dont cut it in this day and age.RU has used the same tactics and strategies since WWIi.Nothings changed.It shows in the AFVs design.The way their Army is trained and supplied,their virtually non existsnt medical corp.....Hey I like the Russians,I think we should be on good terms,but govts need boogeymen. 

This will go down as one of the greatest Military blunders ever.RU got everything wrong.

YMMV

 this might offend some of you, but it is my view that Russia is winning, not losing. by my reckoning, depending on your methods, Ukraine has been demilitarized 3 or 4 times since 2014 to go through several rounds of mobilization in between. the last operational success for ukraine occurred at the end of fall of 2022. every major battle since has been a 'win' for ukraine which seems to me they cannot afford too many of those if and when pokrovsk falls.  I do not care what the official statement from Brussels or Washington says about any of this

Edited October 23 by Captain_Colossus

[mpow66m]

I dont belive any of the BS coming from NATO or UA or RU they re all lying to an extent.My concern is the good 'ol USA.I have no problem helping out.....but is this our problem?no?yes to an extent.I do know its a far more complex situation than the dolts in the media report or understand as they mindlessly read off their cue cards.Its goes back the eary 90's and the collapse of the USSR.I wont go into that and all the broken promise in the ensuing years.As ive sd I hv nothing against the Russians or the Ukrainians.Not the people or their leaders.But everyone involved in this mess is to blame.Uf you poke the bear so to speak.....eventually you get the teeth.Whoever planned this SMO totally screwed up colossally.Just my 2 cents.Its the 21st century,heck Russian vets are treated like garbage and are not receiving the benefits they ve been promised and fought for ect.As you know the only ones who suffer in war  are the Soldiers and civilians.While those who carelessly pull the strings sit comfortably sipping wine and dinning on lamb or duck. 
They may own the night......but we own your minds.Attribute that to any media outlet today that feeds the narrative.

🙂👍

Edited October 23 by mpow66m

[Captain_Colossus]

of course we should all think for ourselves. this has always been viewed as dangerous and out of control. I knew something was wrong with this mess right away in the first few days. we all know the opening blunders by the Russians and the Ukrainians performing well and the large losses inflicted on the Russian columns. what we were not seeing in all of this was the carnage also being inflicted on the Ukrainians since the west either deliberately did not show this or for some reason we were ignorant or something of it. In a similar way it happened with Ukrainians' first major counter offensive in kherson and kharkiv. you saw the territory ukraine had regained and that carried the day. what we were not shown were the horrendous casualties in the process. about this time independent channels with t fighters from both sides, particularly foreign fighters in the ukrainian units began spilling the beans on what was really going on. dozens of interviews and accounts all pointed to a conclusion which is much much different than pentagon or nato briefs. much much rougher than portrayed 

Edited October 23 by Captain_Colossus

[mpow66m]

Yes both sides are getting slaughtered.

[tankgirl72]

Russia is winning? ROFL.....ok. I argued about this when the war started with a few other vets who were pro-Russia and they insisted that the Russians would be in Kyiv within weeks. I told them they were full of it then and was right.Not long ago a friend of mine in Kharkiv sent me the full uniform of a Russian they had captured along with a description of where he was taken prisoner and that he was treated well.

 

But its a very clear fact that they do not give a rat about their men. Russian troop interviews and countless videos of their deplorable tactics and strategies letting themselves get armored columns boxed in on narrow roads and slaughtered and they keep doing that again and again. Their horrible treatment of conscripts. . Also their widespread execution of civilians and Ukrainian troops which are war crimes. They still use the crooked red star and hammer&sickle as well which they are proud of(just as bad as the Swastika and certainly killed more people than any other regime). No love for them from me. That said there are a lot of good Russians that hate Putin, the war, and are even involved in militias behind the lines that are sabotaging and ambushing Russian troops and that's a good thing.  But I do agree that the war needs to end and Ukraine needs the land back that was stolen. Putin has no claim to it at all.

Edited October 24 by tankgirl72

[mpow66m]

As I said this will go down as the greatest mil blunder ever.The NK will defect enmasse once they smell freedom and food.Most NK troops suffer from malnutrition and worms.End it now,theres no point of going on with it.Yes i know Kiev was a faint blah blah blah.zJust look how. the VDV preformed at Hostelmel (sp?) Airport.That set the tone for the next 2yrs.The Russian mil on the whole is done.They lost half the Blk Sea Fleet to a Country without a Navy!.

Bring the boys back home.

Spain is now sending equipment and money along w Norway.China even told RU to get out and Japan is speaking up now.  

Edited October 24 by mpow66m

[Captain_Colossus]

1 hour ago, tankgirl72 said:

Russia is winning? ROFL.....ok. I argued about this war when it started with a few other vets who were pro-russia and insisted that Russian would be in Kyiv within weeks. I told them they were full of it then and was right.Not long ago a friend of mine in Kharkiv sent me the full uniform of a Russian they had captured along with a description of where he was taken prisoner and that he was treated well.

 

But its a very clear fact that they do not give a rat about their men. Russian troop interviews and countless videos of their deplorable tactics and strategies letting themselves get armored columns boxed in on narrow roads and slaughtered and they keep doing that again and again. Their horrible treatment of conscripts. . Also their widespread execution of civilians and Ukrainian troops which are war crimes. They still use the crooked red star and hammer&sickle as well (just as bad as the Swastika and certainly killed more people than any other regime). No love for them from me,ever. That said there are a lot of good Russians that hate Putin, the war, and are even involved in militias behind the lines that are sabotaging and ambushing Russian troops and that's a good thing.  But I do agree that the war needs to end and Ukraine needs the land back that was stolen. Putin has no claim to it at all.

 

name the last major operation that ukraine has won. 

 

the rest of your statement is politics, which if i were to counter with what the ukrainians have been doing to ethnically cleanse russian civilians in the donabs since 2014 with some of their swastika banner units - which we would call warcrimes if some other petty third world state had done. if you recall this issue was bad enough that a public law was passed by congress that these specific ukrainian units were to receive no funding. needless to say, all of that was swept under the rug after the beginning of 2022 and there is a lot of glossing over that, since it is an inconvenient fact. i have been following the genesis of all this going well beyond 2022 back to 2014 and even before such as major events in 2008 and 1999 involving nato or nato backed forces. it seems some of you either missed that, are ignoring that, or in either case don't like it that not all of us are on board with that

 

if you want to talk about the abuse of troops, i'm afraid there is enough of that to go around. war is a brutal business, it is not exclusive to russia. ex., the ukrainians' attempt to hold mariupol to the last man until there were a handful of survivors finally taken prisoner, the stubborn attempt to hold bahmut long after that was going to fail, the drafting of men by ukrainian brute squads, kidnapped off the streets with no due process, putting essentially civilians with a few days training into hamburger units in the trenches where many have complained commanders have abandoned them, and nato and western leaders covering all this up because, well, that is bad optics for the democracy vs tyranny movie, particularly since ukraine is run by the same kinds of corrupt oligarchs that were going on in russia before putin came to power, which he at least tried to stamp out. this was not something we in the west did not particularly like because these characters were left over from the yeltsin era and were more western friendly. if you are a putin fan, these guys are selling your country out for their own gains and the gains of their rich counterparts in the west

 

so i am afraid everything you are saying fits into the same patterns i have seen over and over again in my experience of watching these matters. am i a fan of putin? not particularly so. i think he's a very cold, calculating but rational individual, and i do not think he is  self destructive as some of our western institutions seem bent on doing to themselves

 

just to be clear, if it were up to me none of this were to ever happen. but that is not the way it works

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24 by Captain_Colossus

[tankgirl72]

There are many pictures of Russian troops throwing the Hitler salute so I guess that goes both ways doesn't it? Not sure I would classify this as politics, its war. And besides my original post was about the ridiculous armor on tanks and not the politics.

[Captain_Colossus]

ok, maybe. this tells me there are still ethnic attitudes going on or simmering in europe leftover from world war 2 and beyond that europeans need to self reflect and work on. i would prefer to stay out of it. if i were to make a comparison to any other war and if i had my choice i would choose the iran - iraq war. there are striking similarities- the last real peer vs peer modern conflict before this one with old ethnic rivalries underwriting and financing it

[mpow66m]

Russia and Ukraine are one in the same as far as warfighting goes.Ukraine just jas the big money backers.If not for NATO the story woukd be different.Russia never fights a quick war.

[tankgirl72]

1 hour ago, Captain_Colossus said:

ok, maybe. this tells me there are still ethnic attitudes going on or simmering in europe leftover from world war 2 and beyond that europeans need to self reflect and work on. i would prefer to stay out of it. if i were to make a comparison to any other war and if i had my choice i would choose the iran - iraq war. there are striking similarities- the last real peer vs peer modern conflict before this one with old ethnic rivalries underwriting and financing it

We do agree on this here for sure.

[tankgirl72]

2 hours ago, mpow66m said:

the VDV preformed at Hostelmel (sp?) Airport.That set the tone for the next 2yrs.

I remember all those pictures of the remains of VDV troops and AS Val rifles laying all over the roads. Before that operation, I had no idea that AS/VSS rifles were issued in such large numbers. I wish those were imported to the US. Would love to have one for my collection.🙂

[Sean]

Hi all - Due to the possibility of quickly spinning out of control, we can't have political discussion here.  This can be really hard to do during a discussion of how a war is executed.