Helicopters Won't Engage Targets / Can't Hit Targets

[Apocalypse 31]

 

4.377

 

I was able to get it to use its TOW on an ENGAGE waypoint / racetrack but it won't engage targets that are presented within easy view or can't hit those targets accurately. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Apocalypse 31

[Jartsev]

First, as far as I can see, AH-1  has no problems with using 40mm AGL against ground targets(hitting them is a bit different and known story), if on route with appropriate tactics(engage, for example) and AI considers target as engageable. It would be nice to see your test scenario with instructions how to reproduce. And note, that if you are flying helicopter manually, then depending of terrain it may open fire when it is bit too late.

[TankHunter]

Investigating, Apoc, can you provide the test scenario for this so we can try to get a better idea as to what's happening?

[Apocalypse 31]

25 minutes ago, TankHunter said:

Investigating, Apoc, can you provide the test scenario for this so we can try to get a better idea as to what's happening?

 

[Apocalypse 31]

30 minutes ago, Jartsev said:

First, as far as I can see, AH-1  has no problems with using 40mm AGL against ground targets

Oh ok. I marked this as solved then, since you say it has no problems. 

 

Feel free to delete the thread

 

Quote

If on route with appropriate tactics(engage, for example) and AI considers target as engageable

Sure, but sometimes I don't want my helicopter flying in 1k circles in an area, especially if there's AAA/SHORAD. There's no reason a stationary helicopter, as seen in my video, shouldn't be completely annihilating that small group of BMs

Edited March 3, 2023 by Apocalypse 31

[Jartsev]

And by the they, how Cobras in your scenario are supposed to engage enemy with AGLs, if ammunition load in scenario  has 0 grenades for them?

[Apocalypse 31]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:09 AM, Jartsev said:

And by the they, how Cobras in your scenario are supposed to engage enemy with AGLs, if ammunition load in scenario  has 0 grenades for them?

Yup. You're correct. I removed the 40mm from the loadout because it has no worth and is actually more risky to army heli's with it. 

 

Running it again and will report back. 

 

 

But they still don't engage targets with other weapon systems. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Apocalypse 31

[Assassin 7]

6 minutes ago, Jartsev said:

And by the they, how Cobras in your scenario are supposed to engage enemy with AGLs, if ammunition load in scenario  has 0 grenades for them?

Do we need to check our old scenarios for any ammunition changes? Got one coming up on Sunday 

[Apocalypse 31]

Just confirmed loadout

Flew it again

Same results

AH1 not engaging with 40mm.

 

I'll run it in a more sterile environment (totally flat, desert with zero foliage) to get the most vanilla test run. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Apocalypse 31

[Apocalypse 31]

Video #2 (still HD buffering)

 

Definitely accuracy issues. 

 

Having trouble acquiring targets (as initially reported)

 

And also engaging targets so close that it damages itself. 

 

It's definitely not a vehicle I'd use with an active threat if it has this much trouble engaging. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Apocalypse 31

[Apocalypse 31]

Tiger seems even more hesitant to engage targets

 

 

[Ssnake]

3 hours ago, Assassin 7 said:

Do we need to check our old scenarios for any ammunition changes? Got one coming up on Sunday 

Well, in old versions there was no grenade launcher option for the Cobra, so 4.377 does the right thing when preserving legacy scenarios in the way they were, by reducing the ammo to 0.

 

For new scenarios, the ammo default is "not zero". But old ones - yeah, you got to adjust if you want the new capability.

[Apocalypse 31]

4 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

Well, in old versions there was no grenade launcher option for the Cobra, so 4.377

What do you mean? It's always had the Grenade Launcher on it. 

[Volcano]

3 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

What do you mean? It's always had the Grenade Launcher on it. 

 

It's a technical thing -- basically at some point the weapon was internally changed to a "coax" to greatly restrict their use (because they couldn't even hit targets they were flying towards, or while hovering), but after some improvements to fix that this was changed back to the "maingun".  But also, the helicopter used to default to 0 rounds in the past, because it wasn't working very well - so it really depends on what point the scenario was created and saved.

 

But really, it is basically just a matter of checking a few helicopters in a scenario and adding gun ammo if it doesn't have it (or just select one and check the box to change all ammo of that type, if there they are quite a few helicopters present throughout).

 

-------------------------------

 

As for the helicopters behavior in general, nothing has changed in a major way here - we were satisfied with their increased effectiveness that came with the "improved behavior" update. If helicopters are reluctant to shoot, then just as before it might be because they are being controlled manually and the gunner isn't in what the AI feels to be an ideal position to fire, or at the appropriate angle to shoot (depending on what weapon they actually want to shoot), or because they are looking at another target to engage and aren't at an angle to do so. Otherwise the helicopter *should* fly around as needed to engage targets on its own, depending on the tactics it has. But the point being, that should be the same as before and unless or until those helicopters can be playable, the AI gunner will do it's thing that doesn't always fit what the manual flying player wants to do.

 

What has changed mainly is that the guns now have proper rate of fire, are now "maingun" type (so they use them on things other than infantry). That said, there is always going to be issues with the "dumb AI" shooting at targets with guns, but this is nothing new, and it is something we are working on in the long run. Flying directly at, or hovering, should at least be successful at hitting the target, though, but sure that isn't the safest thing to do in a helicopter either (but it is still the real world way to attack a target with accuracy, and some helicopters, like the Mi-24P with fixed guns, have no other choice). But then again, a helicopter has to be smart about getting into gun range anyway, being something that it should usually only do against non-armored targets, PCs, or infantry only. Certainly the AI will not resort to gun engagements until just about everything else is exhausted, or the target does fit the type to engage with ATGMs/rockets, or the target is out of coincidence for ATGMs/rockets (so its not like it is prioritizing the gun, I mean).

 

But the inaccuracy of the AI gunner firing the gun turret while flying at an angle is known, and has been like this before. It's certainly something we want to improve, but on the other hand, it his is also something very difficult to do in real life but it sure would be nice if the AI got lucky or at least adjusted and put *some* rounds on target in that situation, yes, but it shouldn't be perfect either. 👍

 

Hopefully that helps explain the situation better though.  

[Ssnake]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:22 PM, Apocalypse 31 said:

What do you mean? It's always had the Grenade Launcher on it. 

You were right; bug #11508 has now been reported as fixed; next patch. IOW, you won't have to rework your old scenarios.

[Gibsonm]

Looks like this update / hotfix will address a whole range of issues.