Bond_Villian Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I was under the impression that the terrain update would be a free 'patch', but even if it were released as a free patch immediately prior to the paid update, i would still be getting the paid update anyway. Its tidier to just bundle it all together i think. I wonder how many SB customers would really draw a line in the sand after the terrain patch and not purchase the update anyway. Either way, SB is a brilliant piece of software and im very eager to see whats been done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted October 16, 2018 Members Share Posted October 16, 2018 The patch idea was floated in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 release when "we thought"(TM) that we could fix things quickly. Once that this window of opportunity (WOO) closed this no longer was a practical idea. At some point you have too many code branches and must consolidate them. Which means to conflate the pure engine update (that you promised to deliver, for free) with all the feature updates that you've been working on after said WOO closed. So, I'm 100% guilty of being overly excited in April 2016 when I shouldn't have mentioned the new terrain, and blurting it out in public. I said it before, I'll repeat it now: I'm really, really sorry about this. The temptation is strong to list all the other things we've been working on in the past two years, but the only way to learn from 2016 is to not tell you about it until after we're certain to have a viable new product, and that will be decided upon some time in January, February 2019. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thanks for the news! Will buy it the same free or not 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 hours ago, Ssnake said: The temptation is strong to list all the other things we've been working on in the past two years Just give in to the temptation. It'll feel so good! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Leader Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 51 minutes ago, Apocalypse 31 said: Just give in to the temptation. It'll feel so good! Seconded! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 He's regretting mentioning one thing and spending a huge amount of time trying to put that Genie back into the Bottle and you guys want him to open Pandora's Box?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Leader Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Gibsonm said: He's regretting mentioning one thing and spending a huge amount of time trying to put that Genie back into the Bottle and you guys want him to open Pandora's Box?! I’m sure it’ll be different this time, everyone’s much more mature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said: Just give in to the temptation. It'll feel so good! That would only be human, so go ! 😊😊 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted October 17, 2018 Members Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thanks, but no thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Lion Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Plans do not always go as planned. Please try to be courteous and understanding; recall any experiences when you thought for sure something would turn out one way, however inevitably did not. If it helps, think of it as donating to a project you want to see succeed. I for one am grateful for all the continued effort no matter the obstacles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingo Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) On 21/10/2018 at 3:47 AM, Azure Lion said: Plans do not always go as planned. Please try to be courteous and understanding; recall any experiences when you thought for sure something would turn out one way, however inevitably did not. [...] Like my marriage No big problem, just more free time now to play Steel Beasts and with other beauties Edited October 22, 2018 by Vikingo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUST Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I'm very new to this game started with 4. something and when i bought it it claimed that the terrain would be amazing. I think perhaps the problem is that the Terrain Patch is still on the website as a major feature in the game. Highly praised and the current is told to be bad. Yet we still play with the old. I would suggest taking stuff off the website that we do not have or at least tell people that it in progress. We are like little kids, and when you tell us we can take as many cookies as we want, and we found out that there is no cookies only a empty box, then We get upset 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted October 23, 2018 Members Share Posted October 23, 2018 Well, the new terrain engine is available ... to classroom version users. I haven't published the video on the Steel Beasts Youtube channel; the video you're referring to can only be found through the news story on our homepage (I can't prevent people from posting the link elsewhere). The problem we're facing here is that the release of a PE version actually absorbs the attention of almost the entire team for almost a full quarter of a year, and we couldn't afford that break in our development routine between last October and the end of this year (that's why I keep talking about those "windows of opportunity"). Also, note that the new engine doesn't guarantee better looking terrain in any of the legacy maps and the scenarios based on them. Old maps will get the visualization of the ground's bumpiness, but otherwise must stay the same simply because the original data are of 12.5m mesh width. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUST Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Not complaining. Looking forward to the update 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadVuk Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 So, in short we were fed with crap for the past 2 years? Right now im not even angry any more, im disappointed... im trying to find one reason to keep supporting this simulation. Rest assured eSims that i will never recommend your simulation to any other YT or Twitch channel, something i did many times for the past years since like 2005. In fact im not even sure i will give you any single cent any more... IT is not even about the money, it is about fail to hit every single date you have mentioned since like 2016. and then unloading that to customers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted November 3, 2018 Members Share Posted November 3, 2018 There are things in life that I can influence, and there are others over which I have no control. A PE release costs the entire team an incredible amount of effort. This in turn limits the number of opportunities when we can actually mount the collective effort as a team to release a new version of SB Pro PE. Everything that I have made public in the past 2 1/2 years was written in good faith and the best of intents. PE users want to be informed in advance about planned releases and what to expect in them. This forces me to make predictions about a future that I don't know. Then you hold me accountable for not knowing the future. I can't help but noticing that I find this a tad unfair. The beta testers have been working on the new terrain engine - in its two major iterations - since March 2016, more or less non stop. You have no idea how much they tested everything, how much the new engine touches old code that needs to be adapted, the number of bugs that need to be found and fixed. Did we underestimate the scope of work? Yes. Could all that have been avoided? Maybe, if we could afford to hire professional project managers with great expertise in software development. I know a guy who could have done that, it just would have cost us a quarter million dollars every year because these guys are a rare breed and know their market value very well. So I would have had to lay off a number of programmers to compensate for that extra expense. Would anyone have been better off that way? I don't think so. Honestly, I don't. It would have slowed down the development pace, reduced the number of new, good stuff, you might have received updates like SB Pro PE 3.3 and 3.5 instead for which we would also have charged money, and we would have told you on several occasions that we were forced to delay the release of the new engine just as well (or, we wouldn't have mentioned the new engine at all, and created the false impression that our development is stagnant). In hindsight, I'm sorry that I announced the new terrain engine in April 2016. But that's the thing with hindsight - you know what went wrong only in retrospect. I'm pushing the team to try stuff that's really hard to do. Sometimes we fail. I'm constantly forced to make hard choices without knowing whether I'm making the right choices. At the time, I was convinced that I was doing the right thing. After July 2016 we tried our best at damage control. Then it turned out that our best efforts weren't good enough to release the revised new engine by September 2017, and beyond that point we simply couldn't find the time to halt the development work for our classroom version customers for a full quarter (because that's what it takes - the entire team working for three months on nothing else but a PE version release). We have personnel costs in the medium-high six-digit figures every year. Somehow we must earn an equal amount of money (or better) every year just to stay in business. Sales of the Personal Edition don't remotely come near that target number, so there really isn't much choice that I have. Either the team works on new features for which we receive development money from our army customers, or we go out of business, plain and simple (hint: The new terrain engine isn't one of the things for which we get paid, we do that on our own expense). Many of the new features that get developed on army request get entangled with the work on the new terrain engine. Beyond a certain point, separating changes in the engine from other features is no longer possible. We crossed that point some time between the beginning of this years and now. For a while we thought we could still release a free update that would roll out the new terrain, but again, we simply lacked the opportunity to put everything else on hold to do just that. Now we're at a point where this simply is no longer an option and we have to make the best of it. Which is, a new major upgrade at a reduced price. Knowing what I know now, I'd do certain things differently. Knowing what I knew then, I would probably come to the same (wrong) conclusions. If you're telling me that you were never wrong about the future in your entire life and that you made a lot of meaningful predictions about complex situations in dynamic conditions, I have a project manager's job to offer (if you're willing to work for an amount that doesn't force me to lay off anyone else in the team). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 1 hour ago, BigBadVuk said: So, in short we were fed with crap for the past 2 years? Right now im not even angry any more, im disappointed... im trying to find one reason to keep supporting this simulation. Rest assured eSims that i will never recommend your simulation to any other YT or Twitch channel, something i did many times for the past years since like 2005. In fact im not even sure i will give you any single cent any more... IT is not even about the money, it is about fail to hit every single date you have mentioned since like 2016. and then unloading that to customers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENEGADE-623 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigBadVuk said: So, in short we were fed with crap for the past 2 years? Right now im not even angry any more, im disappointed... im trying to find one reason to keep supporting this simulation. Rest assured eSims that i will never recommend your simulation to any other YT or Twitch channel, something i did many times for the past years since like 2005. In fact im not even sure i will give you any single cent any more... IT is not even about the money, it is about fail to hit every single date you have mentioned since like 2016. and then unloading that to customers. all over not having the terrain engine? please. I hope you never played the silent hunter series from Ubisoft, because the support there was ten times worse. yes, I was looking forward to the new terrain engine. but, being a former software developer, and now tester, I know that stuff happens and priorities will have to shift at times. And you have to remember, their primary customer is the military, not the personal user, so in all actuality you should be happy with the support that ESIM does provide, cause in my years of online gaming and simulator using, Ssnake and Co has been way above standard when it comes to customer support. If they late on something, so be it, stuff happens, ill get over it and I will enjoy SB Pro pe the way it is now until the new one does come out. Edited November 3, 2018 by RENEGADE-623 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3r22r Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 In a nutshell; the natives are getting restless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 OK shoot the guy in the Red shirt and they'll quieten down for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiso Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 6 hours ago, BigBadVuk said: So, in short we were fed with crap for the past 2 years? Right now im not even angry any more, im disappointed... im trying to find one reason to keep supporting this simulation. Rest assured eSims that i will never recommend your simulation to any other YT or Twitch channel, something i did many times for the past years since like 2005. In fact im not even sure i will give you any single cent any more... IT is not even about the money, it is about fail to hit every single date you have mentioned since like 2016. and then unloading that to customers. In short....go get a life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 I can understand when players get disappointed by long waits, and when the package does not exactly contain what was anounced...after all, it was a promise broken. But one has to also consider the type of software we are using here, the size of the esim team and the sources of their income. As a beta tester I can at least in parts see the effort they are putting into the new version, and some of the challenges they face. So all I can ask for is a bit of patience and understanding, IMO the next release will be a "blast" ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Grenny said: IMO the next release will be a "blast" Destructive terrain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted November 3, 2018 Members Share Posted November 3, 2018 This isn't the droid you're looking for. Move along. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalAB Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 “The Ox is slow but the earth is patient “ I can wait. I uninstalled the sim and won’t engage any targets until the final release comes my way. In the meantime I’ve picked up about $200 cdn worth of flight sim, an rpg and I may take up some poker at the local casino. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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